Tivo Series3 is too expensive? You don’t say!
Our household had HDTV for several years now. I am talking about on-the-wall kind, not just small high-resolution LCDs. And I am not even one of those folks who would consider buying $10k plasma, ever. So I feel like mainstream in that regard.
So, is there HDTV signal yet? Better still, is there HDTV Tivo yet?
The fact is, I have to agree with PC Magazine article on this, Series3 is totally overpriced. It’s not so much that the technology in there isn’t expensive, I know it is. But Tivo always had in their business model the monthly fees as part of the long-term revenue!
And with rollout of Tivo on Comcast HD DVRs fast approaching, why would you ever consider such a pricey Series3 as an option?
Oh, and don’t forget that DishNetwork is giving away their superior HD-DVR for free and DirecTV charges a fraction of Series3 cost for theirs.
April 24th, 2007 at 10:01 am
I think that you are missing a very important cost component that the series 3 can cut out. Namely digital cable charges. For Comcast these run $17 per month. It’s important because if you want a DVR with Comcast (HDTV or otherwise) then they force you to be a digital cable subscriber, if you are a TiVo 1, 2, or 3 subscriber, then you are allowed to subscribe to the basic package and get the lower price.
The difference between basic and digital amounts to access to a couple of extra channels like the History channel or Starz, but the quality is the same. If you want HDTV with Comcast, then you must have a cable card to avoid the charge.
So many people ignore this $17 per month charge when they are comparing prices and I guess that if someone was already a digital TV subscriber this would be fair, but as someone who refuses to pay digital prices for the same picture, I’m saving over $200 per year off the price of my cable by using TiVo instead of their box.
April 25th, 2007 at 7:23 am
I am not sure I understand how you arrive at $17
Are you saying just equipment rental for one digital DVR box comes to $17 ? I just looked at our area Comcast pricing and it looks like Analog and basic Digital are priced the same, but you would still need CableCard, and won’t the charge monthly fee for renting the card?
April 25th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
The $17 is a culmination of various fees. Comcast hides this and has done a good job of convince people that it doesn’t exist because it makes their DVRs look expensive. I got the breakdown after I swiped a rate sheet from a Comcast installer and started asking questions.
The key is the difference in price between “digital cable” and “expanded basic.” Expanded basic includes MTV, Comedy Central, Etc, but doesn’t include the History Channel and a couple other small time channels I don’t care about.
Without the S3, Comcast won’t allow you to receive HDTV signals without subscribing to digital cable (I think it’s an extra $9 per month) On top of this, they also won’t give you HDTV without you “renting” an “HDTV converter” for $5 per month. Since the series 3 doesn’t convert the HDTV signals, TiVo can accomplished this with just a cable card. To top it all off, they then bill the same DVR box a third time, by making you pay $3 for a “digital converter” (which is really part of the DVR.)
To add insult to injury, I think that there is also a remote control rental fee of 0.35 cents. If I wanted premium channels, I’d have to pay the extra for the “digital” cable, but would still save by not renting an “hdtv converter” or a “digital converter”. Since I don’t need HBO or Showtime, I cut out all of the digital charges and save the money. If you own your own cable modem, you can also save $5 per month ($60 per year) in rental fees.
I’m not sure how Time Warner and others price this out, but I don’t know of any other way that a subscriber can get analog pricing, but still have access to the HDTV signals. At the end of the day, the TiVo will stil cost me more, but if I keep my series 3 for 4 years, then it turns out to be appoximately the same cost as what they expect the Comcast / TiVo upgrade to run at.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Thanks for excellent in-depth explanation.
One more thought, though — what about the monthly Tivo fee?
April 26th, 2007 at 9:56 am
You can’t get away from TiVo’s fee, but my point is only that the series 3 is less expensive then people think that it is. In my case, I paid $800 for the box, $300 for the lifetime transfer and $400 for the hard drive upgrade, (so I can have 1000 hours of SD or 100 hours of HD.)
This works out to be about $1,500 up front with no residual fees, (admitedly, too much to spend on a gadget), but if I break down the up front cost for the time I expect to use the box, it works out to be $31 per month, over 4 years or $25 per month over 5 years. Since I’m saving, $17 per month off my Comcast bill, my actual additional cost works out to be $8 per month more. With a cable box, I’m only renting though, but with TiVo I own it, so after 5 years, if I can resell a 750GB, TiVo series 3 with a lifetime subscription for over $480, then I’ll actually save money compared to Comcast’s box. The math isn’t easy to get at, but my point is just that Comcast and others are charing a lot more then an extra $9.99, if you want a dual tuner HDTV DVR to play with.
April 27th, 2007 at 11:38 am
That’s excellent breakdown, makes sense now, thanks.
Sadly, people can’t get lifetime subscription any longer.
Another consideration I think to consider is the looming roll-out of IPTV, which I am not sure how compatible Series 3 is with that.
But still, excellent math, and with Series3 price that continues to drop, more and more people are likely to consider it.